The Career Formula Every Business Student Should Know

In this episode of the *Career Starter Show*, I sit down with Garth Gibbes from Ivey Business School to unpack how students can build meaningful, standout careers right from school. We cover the importance of curiosity, how to approach networking, and the hidden habits of top-performing students. Whether you're an undergrad or MBA student, this conversation is packed with insights you can act on today.

🎯 Learn how to:  
- Make the most of your business school experience  
- Stand out to employers before you graduate  
- Build a powerful, intentional career path  

Garth's suggestions:
London's LEDC
Calgary's Economic Development Corporation
Women in Capital Markets (now called VersaFI)
Morrissette Entrepreneurship Center
Canadian Association of Alternative Strategies and Assets (CAASA)

SAP = System Analysis Program Development

🎤 Podcast Recommendation
Work Life with Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/podcasts/work-life/

📚 Book Recommendation

The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins 


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P.S.

To see all the Career Starter Program Book recommendations, click here: 

Transcript

0:00

When you think about students you've seen over the years who really did best with their job search. students you've seen over the years who really did best with their job search. What are the things about them that stood out to you? What are the things they did differently... Yeah. This is something I've thought about. And, I think, you know, really something that is important. So it's a great question without just repeating a common tactic, some sort of strong job search, which is, you know, network strategies, research, etc.. Here are a few things that, that really stood out for me.. Welcome back to another episode of the Career Starter Podcast. My name is Ashley Misquita and I'm your host. If you’ve already subscribed to the show, thank you very much, but if you're new, please go ahead and subscribe. Because today, like every day, I'm going to be bringing you amazing guest, and we're going to uncover the tips and strategies that will help you get your dream job. And once you're in that job, helping you launch your career and accelerate it like a rocket ship. All right Garth. Well, listen, it's great to have you here. Thanks so much for, for joining us on the podcast. I really appreciate it. You're very welcome. Let me introduce Garth briefly here. So Garth is at Ivey Business School. Garth’s, a seasoned executive. He's got over 20 years experience in financial services, post-secondary education, professional development industries. His expertise includes strategic planning, client engagement, sales, and business development. He's worked with renowned organizations like TD, Moody's Analytics, and, of course, Ivey Business School. I've known Garth for, for quite some time now, and, really great guy. And again, really appreciate you doing this, Garth. Thanks so much. You're welcome. All right. Why don't we, why don't we kick things off with a little bit of background on you? Tell us about and give us a brief background of your history, and then maybe talk about, if you don't mind what you're doing right now and what are your current role is. Sure. So I primarily worked in the financial services sector, including anywhere from starting a leadership development program at TD. And have worked through retail, commercial banking, wealth management, leadership positions within those areas I worked, both domestically and globally. And I've worked for organizations at Moody's Analytics, which is part of the Moody's brand and professional development and businesses and business development. So long history of the financial services enjoyable history. And what am I doing now? For example, well now I work for Ivey business school and I've worked here for the last five years. You know, I'm an associate director of corporate recruiting at Ivey Business School. What I basically do is bridge the gap between top industry employers and all the talented students let’s say. You know, my role involves managing and cultivating relationships with domestic and global companies, whether that is ensuring that they have access to Ivey's best talent and also provide strategic insights on market trends toward our corporate partners and student facing teams. You know, which helps them to shape the programs that align with the industry needs. So by working cross-functionally, you know, with internal stakeholders, I contribute to initiatives that enhance the school's reputation and, its global rankings. And so, you know, ultimately, my focus is really on maintaining a strong recruitment pipeline and driving new business development to support our MBAs and MSC and HBA’s. So all the three programs that we have in Ivey, for people we're not familiar with Ivey Business School, why don't you take a moment and brag about your program with your students for a minute or two, maybe think talking about it in the context of why would people want to come into your to your program, and why should companies want to recruit there? Sure. Perfect. You know, Ivey Business School is part of Western University, as you know, was renowned for shipping future leaders who excel in the in the real world. Our students sort of really undergo rigorous case-based learning that, you know, bodes well for. And it really bodes well for that critical thinking and leadership problem solving skills. You know, making them well-equipped to tackle sort of complex business challenges. Ivey is sort of consistently ranked among the top business schools globally, and we really have a strong focus on experiential learning and global perspective and an entrepreneurial mindset. One of the things that stands out a lot to me, and it would stand out to a lot of people there is our alumni network spans over 30,000 professional worldwide, which provides our students with sort of unparalleled access to the global, community of industry leaders. You know, these are companies that recruit from Ivey that, you know, they benefit from high end graduates who, who are really not only academically brilliant but also demonstrate resilience, adaptability, and the ability really to sort of thrive in the world, and under high pressure environments. Know what? What's good about corporations partnering with Ivey? When you partner with Ivey, these corporations tap into a talent pool that is diverse, driven, and ready to make. You know, we always see an immediate impact in today's fast paced business landscape. Outstanding sounds good. Can I get back in there after a few years in the working world? You're more than welcome, Ashley. You're one of the people that we will roll out the red carpet for. That's very kind of you. You know, you hit on a couple of things that we're going to touch on later, but I thought were very interesting about the importance of the the alumni network and taking advantage of just such a robust network and then the idea of resilience. But I'd love to actually maybe we'll start with this idea of resilience. I think it's incredibly important. But one of the things that always strikes me is that as you move through life and you don't think about it when you're a student, when you're young, but you know, life throws curveballs at you. You know, you people get sick, people lose their jobs. People have challenges in their lives. And ability to be resilient. The experience with that is incredibly important and to be able to pick yourself up. Is there anything you would point to that you think helps your students or students in general build resilience? Yeah, I think, one of the things is the students come to us under a situation where it takes a lot to get into Ivey. You know, to penetrate that market, the market of getting into Ivey, you sort of start really early in your life. So there's an element of resilience in there. So yes, Ivey students stand out because they've been going down a path that already has them building on resilience. But it's really, things like getting involved in the community, get involved in projects, getting involved in leadership roles. And, you know, actually, really a lot of times when I see resilience is those students who have had this life where they've done sort of part time work while they going school, for example, summer jobs, etc.. So when they come out, I always like to use the terminology, their hungry. Right? So and that bodes well for not just coming into Ivey, but when they leave Ivey. So we're developing those types of students from very early with the help of parents and communities, etc.. Great. Let's then maybe shift gears back to some of my original questions I've been thinking of ahead of time. And we'll sort of incorporate some of the stuff you talked about. Let's start a high level. When you think about students you've seen over the years who really did best with their job search. What are the things about them that stood out to you? What are the things they did differently? And just the context of the question, right. Because our podcast is, is geared towards helping students get their dream job so that prior to to to work part of their career and then how to really accelerate their career once they start their job within the context of getting one, getting that job they want. What are what are the best students you've observed do? Yeah. This is something I've thought about. And, I think, you know, really something that is important. So it's a great question without just repeating a common tactic, some sort of strong job search, which is, you know, network strategies, research, etc.. Here are a few things that, that really stood out for me. So one intentionality, you know, targeting industries, companies that have genuine interest based on your own experiences, your interests, you know, your values, etc. this intentionality really plays into sort of components of the job search, you know, like the application documents, networking, sharing your stories, values, etc. but building off this would be having focus kind of it’s alright to have multiple interests, but be able to prioritize your efforts and time accordingly so that’s the intentionality aspect and also trying something different. You know sort of not afraid to carve out your own path and try something different to shake things up. For example, you know, we've have students who wrote an article in one of the Ivey institutes that they were connected to. Our industry professionals that continue to build that relationship with expanding networking opportunities, you know, not all students hit the ground running. And I mean, use that term around that comment over and over, hit the ground running and began applying to banking retail roles in person, you know, literally walking into the bank and, and hand in your physical resume. I don't think you remember that, Ashley. But, I did some of that, and they ended up talking with a branch manager, for example, who along that path has been a mentor, you know, an an ally for them in, connectivity opportunities more suited for the experience in education. So sort of those simple trying something different tactics and, you know, being resourceful, for example, you know, reflecting on what's worked well for you in the past or what, you know, you've already done learning, kind of leaning into building off of that. Right? All those successes, you know, how how can you sort of take that further? Because, you know, sometimes that could mean just following back up on leads and end up in a position, you know, when you didn't end up in a position in the past. But, you know, nonetheless their leads networks, you know, to maintain, you know, always keep the pipeline going. And we used to call it what people still call it the roladex. Right. You know, have that have that out there, you know, because you want to make sure that, in the same realm, you know, you want to be able to truly see the transferability of all of these experiences, right? You know, your personal and your extracurricular and not undermining those, for example. Right. So, for example, there was a student that I heard a story from one of my my career advisors, for example, that reached out to a professor previous professor from years back. Right. And because they were really engaged in their class and ended up getting connected to someone else in the banking industry. One of the things I noticed is, you know, I tell students sometimes is, you know, I know you want to get into the big banks and big financial institutions, but it's, you know, it's not bad getting into the smaller private equity firms. I'm just using that as an example, because a lot of those folks who are studying those firms and who run those from came from a domestic and global, many years working with the big players. The Morgan Stanleys the JP Morgans, you know, the TDs, the RBC, etcetera, you know, so but if you work with them, you will actually be having closer conversations than if you were just working in a huge organization where you're disconnected from top executives and stuff like that, but they also can give you great advice, one on one you might be at a desk very close to them, you may go out for drinks or whatever, food, lunch. And not only that, you know, they can also refer you and sponsor you, right? They refer you to keep people in the industry. And the last one has really understanding sort of the other perspective. You know, students have been able to understand the company's perspective when it comes to understanding their needs. You know, empathizing with their priority shared genuine interest in the companies. So the development challenges growth how are they involved in the community and what stood out to me. You know, those students who do that, they've stood out to me and I've been being, you know, successful because it's really being able to approach of these companies more genuine and thoughtful and sort of intentional, you know what I mean? 100%. There's there's so much great stuff in there, Garth, you’re clearly the right person to talk to. Experienced. Exactly. I was listening to a podcast recently and they provided they got provided this contrast between perception and perspective of how, you know, on one hand, I've got my perception I'm seeing outwards, but someone from the other end is looking from a perspective. And what is my I think I'm probably I'm probably butchering it a little bit, but the idea being thinking about things from the other side's perspective, from what are their needs, what is it? You know, they know you want the job, but what is it that you can do for them? How do you help them solve their problems? And so that's I think that's a really, really good point, but particularly the intentionality. Well, I thought that was a I think that's a very important nuance that's often overlooked of because you can, you know, craft a job search where you do a series of things that give you some options. It doesn't mean only one narrow thing, but if you do it in an intentional way, you can open a series of doors. But you probably are not wanting to just spray and pray and apply everywhere and hope for the best hundred percent. I love that analogy. You know, that's exactly it right there. So how do you approach helping students in your program? I mean, you clearly have a lot of insight. You clearly have a lot of experience. You talk to employers. How do you go about helping students develop from you know, I just arrived. I'm full of enthusiasm. I'm highly motivated. You bring in very strong candidates. And help them develop the skills to become ready and capable and successful in their job search. So I think it's it's because of our robust career management department. At Ivey Business School it's sort of stands out to most. And, you know, I don't want to boast, but I am. I spoke to a lot of other career management and I hope so. They're my colleagues. And what we offer to me. And I've seen a lot even in my own university. You know, I've seen a lot that we offer here, at Ivey, which is a lot different to most than. And I'll just give you an example. You know, we're really dedicated supporting career aspirations of all the students across all three programs. And that's an MBA, a master's in science in management, and our Honors in Business Administration program or undergraduate degree. And and here's how we approach it. You know, we put personalized career coaching. What that means is we provide one-on-one career coaching tailored to each students unique goals, strengths and interests. Our career coaches help students identify their career paths which I think is is critical because most do not know when they come in. They have an idea. But you know, we build it out. I think you mentioned that before, sort of doing the needs analysis in a lot of ways. And then we develop their personal brand. They help them identify those career paths develop their personal brand and what they do is they help them create strategic plans to achieve their professional objectives. We also industry align program, and what that means is we design and deliver workshops, events and resources that align with the latest industry trends and employee needs. What does this include? Resume building, interview preparation, networking strategies, and industry specific insights ensuring our students are well-prepared to succeed in their chosen fields. All right, so as you would know, a lot of our students head to these engagement events that firms have out there, right? So love educational other connections, etc.. And we formulate strong employer partnerships. So what that means is we leverage our strong relationship with, you know, the top domestic and global employers, this is employers, in different industries. You're not just talking financial services here. You know, many different industries, right? So we leverage those relationships with these employers to connect with students with exclusive job opportunities that they have out there. You know, our team works closely with these companies to sort of understand their talent needs and match them with the right candidates from Ivey’s diverse and really high, high potential high skill student body, but experiential learning. You probably have heard a lot about this. You know, we emphasize really the real world experience is if you do any research on Ivey, you will hear a lot of this real world experiences through, you know, internships, projects, case competition, you know, and that allows students to apply their classroom knowledge and in practical settings because that's what it's all about. And that's the thing about Ivey. We we we know we academically sound, but that needs to be applied to practical settings. The practical world. So this hands on approach ensures really that they’re job ready and can make, you know, an immediate impact in their careers. And I'll repeat they hit the ground running. Yeah. So let me ask you this. So a couple of questions there that jumped out at me. When you talk about personal brand, how do you recommend students try to build a personal brand. And one of those if there's anything you know, what if you were to do one, two and three things like testing one, two and three, what would you recommend to people? Yeah, I would say, you know, really understanding yourself from from where you are right now and where you want to go and what are you going to get to that point is you are going to need intervention by those who will listen to you, so to say, from a counseling point of view, you're not going to do it on your own, in my opinion. Right? So obviously when you come into Ivey career management, you get all this counseling, you know, the benefits of coming to school like Ivey. But even outside of Ivey, you know, listen to your network, listen to your connections, your closest friends, your neighbors, your family, etc. and and really ensure that you are building a personal brand. That's true and tried and really honest. Because you may be thinking you're building your own personal brand, but you haven’t spoken to many people to understand who you really are. Personal brand can come with not just listening to other people and counseling, but, you know, scaling up in some ways, taking some some courses that are out there on that in how to develop your personal brand, etc.. There's a lot of and of course research and etc. listen to a lot of podcasts, read a lot of books, but you also you have to really take the initiative on your own. Yes, there's going to be support there, especially when you come into Ivey, but you need to take the initiative on your own and really be true and true to yourself. And then when when I say it clearly, you provide a lot of support for your students at Ivey, let's say, because only a very, very small number of our audience probably is going to be going to Ivey if you were to be guiding someone. And there's maybe two different ways to approach this. One is if you are guiding someone and two if you were thinking about someone from another university who's in a comparable role or who was a career coach at another university, and they said, you know Garth, we really need to level up our career coaching, and we have the bandwidth to sort of add like 2 or 3 elements to it. What would you tell them how would you tell them that the most effective way they can help their students? Yeah, I mean, they have to become very personalized. It can't be, you know, cookie cutter. It really has to be a personalized approach to the students. First of all, you have to go above and beyond to help the students to connect with the right people, not just tell the students to go out there and find somebody and connect and speak. How do the students that you remember, you're talking to students. You can be talking to experienced students. And these for example, and some of them are graduate students. But you know, the bulk is really the HBAs or at the undergrads, and they're young, and we may have an assumption that they know more than we think they know. But you have to be there to guide them along the path and really, you know, lay out this roadmap for them, because they need help and you really need so, so take an interest in them, take an interest in them, like they will your own kids or your nephews and nieces or etc. really, really make it genuine that you know you're out there to help them. And help them. Show them how to click on this button. You know, just go into this area without giving them any guidance. They need a lot of guidance. I think that's such an important , handholding. Hand-holding, hand-holding, if you know what I mean. I think it's such an important nuance, because I come across a lot of students who will have heard you need to connect with alumni. And they're like, great, how do I do that? Like, what does that look like? And so I think that's I think a very important nuance of and then I guess some of the key resources would be most career centers will have some sort of alumni database, I'm guessing. And yeah, we do have alumni. I mean, the information is accessible. It's just, how do you utilize it like like we can tell anybody, go do this. Go here, go there. But some of the students may say, okay, no problem. But in the back of their minds they're thinking, how do I do this? And they're afraid to ask the question, right? So it may be better for you to say, okay, here's the resources, and let me show you a way of trying to utilize these resources efficiently. You know, we know because they are young students. Don't hesitate. Sometimes they feel they feel like they don't want to waste your time, etc. so you have to be there to really help. It's funny, one of the things I'll chat about, I was chatting with someone about this, yesterday. I think it was. And it's the idea that often people would be like, I want to find a mentor, but often mentors find you if you're doing interesting things. And so one of those things is having the, you know, the get up and go to go and reach out to those people and ask them questions about their career. And it's funny, right, because if someone's a third year student, let's say they just arrived at Ivey or there, another another program, you can email an alum and that, might ignore their email. If they're not, interested in talking to students, right? Or they might say, yeah, sure, let's talk. Let's have a coffee. What they won't say is, oh, it's so weird that a student's emailing me. It's completely normal. It's completely logical, understandable. And students, by being a student. You have default permission, to do that kind of thing, right? I am not student facing 100%, but students, as you know, reach out to me by emails and LinkedIn and see a few two liners and stuff like that. I am very open to that. Yeah, you know what I mean? I don't turn them off and say, hey, you know, you shouldn't be really emailing me or whatever. You know, that this is their chance. And I look at it in this way when you're a student, it's not a permanent in your life. It's an experience. Right? It's a journey. And that journey should be effective. It should be enjoyable. It should be fun. It's going to be hard. It's going to be this it’s going to be that. But it is a journey that's not very long. So my objective is to ensure that I help them as much as possible through that journey. That short journey. Yeah, it goes by very quick. Garth, when you think of students who have struggled, what are the things? And you probably see things and you're just like, no, don't do that. Or they do something in your in your or their they don't do something. They should be like they should be doing. The people who you see struggle. Is there anything you would highlight that they tend to have in common? Ones who struggle on the job search? Yeah. Okay. So I was going to go into life, I think, you know, the bottom line is, those who struggle in the job search, for example, sometimes don't do enough education on the level of effort that needs to be put in to the job search. It's not just physically you're or time wise and stuff like that, but in terms of what are they doing to help their job search be successful. Are they speaking to people who know about job searches and often successful in seeking to model individuals, are they? Are they doing that research? And typically the ones that struggle, in my opinion, are the ones who just dive in without doing the the entire study period of it all to make themselves better. And then what happens is they find out, well, maybe I'm not really doing it the right way, are the ones who spend some time, you know, I'm not saying you spend all your time, but go spend time to be mindful of what it takes to be successful. Those are usually the ones that, that is really. I'm not sure I've heard, heard it put that way before, but it makes so much sense. Yeah. Okay, great. When you think about a resource that students would really benefit from using now, of course, aside from the newsletter that I write, another resource besides that, is there anything you would point students to who are not necessarily Ivey students alone, but that the resources are generally accessible that can help them with job search. It can help them with interview prep. Any any thoughts on that? Well, you know, I think, for example, not just a resource. I get to the resource. Let's say, for example, you want students to help themselves. I would say there's a couple of things that come to mind. And yeah, if you're related to career job search, you know, a sense of why, if they can give a solid, authentic answer to why they're doing what they're doing, great. Then there's intentionality and thought behind it. If the answer is anything related to what others are doing, peer pressure, then they have to think different. Be able to say no. Be able to say no to opportunities that don't genuinely speak to them. Be able to say no to reaching out to someone at a company they don't feel genuinely curious to chat with, with when it comes to resource news letter, anything like that, I would. I am a big proponent of associations, for example, industry associations. How many times do students really use industry associations? You know, industry associations are connected. It's like an alumni, right? Alumni network. They're connected to the industry, to people in the industry, etc. they have all the information, there on the industry, timely information, historical information, etc.. Right. So I give you examples, today the Marketing Association, Retail Council Canada, have IIAC which is Investment Industry Association of Canada, you know, you have even our sustainability in organizations etc. Women In Capital Markets(I think they changed their name recently) things like that. Right. And it's not necessary that you have to buy a membership for them because some of them don't have it because some of free resources, you know, webinars, networks, anything you could use sort of as a research tool, right? I don't think, you know, people that the students get into that as much as they should. And and of course, I go back to local alumni chapters. Right. And, you know, school initiatives. You know, Ivey's a great example of how many internal resources they have, like the Morrissette Entrepreneurship Center, for example, which is a way to connect and you know, to learn about investors, for example, startups, you know, not what to think, to connect to them, but speaks to, you know, sort of topic of trying something different and being resourceful. Another idea would be connecting with PhD students, researching a particular topic, for example, which may be an area of your interest, and the the the PhD students is happy to share that information. And you're lucky because they've done all the research, you know, how neat will that be to be able to speak to them? You know, most current research things that are being done in that space. And of course, you have the economic development corporations like London's LEDC, Calgary's Economic Development Corporation, things like that. So it's a big world out there. And, there's a lot of resources out there that the students should be utilizing more of it. I think those are some really interesting ideas, particularly in the context of having a logical connection and reason to reach out to someone. So alumni is a straight line, right? Hey, I'm an alum You're an alum. Can I have a coffee with you? I'd like to learn about your industry and your job. Great. That's pretty, you know, pretty straightforward. But connecting with people through industry association, that makes a ton of sense. That's a really interesting idea thanks for mentioning that Garth. It’s a one stop shop, a one stop shop. You know, I, couldn’t be more simple and direct on that. Yeah. And why not utilize it? You know, there's another association that I know that sounds really good. You know, the Canadian Association of Alternative Assets and Strategies CAASA did I say the right way? But, so the bottom line is, you know, these organizations, you'd be surprised at the information you get and the people you meet in these organizations. Absolutely. No. That's a great insight. Last one before we shift gears a little bit, is I try to I like to sort of approach these as sort of high level conversations and then a couple of like, what can I do right now today to move the ball forward? When you think about students who you, who you've seen, who really stood out both to you and then presumably they stand out to you, they're going to stand up to potential employers. Is there anything that because that's a question I often get, I often get how do I stand out in an interview? How does my resume, stand out? Anything that you would sort of point to that, you could suggest to people? Yeah. I mean, and the terminology resume is, you know, some firms don’t the resume, right? They use other types of profile stuff and online stuff, you know. So yes, the stand out is always a question that I think is so important. Whatever it is, if it's not a resume, whatever it is, but have some specific ones that you know, someone shared that they created an Instagram account for, for, you know, pizza place reviews. So they sort of went around and evaluated different pizza places. This became a huge conversation starter right in the interviews. How? What? So what did you do? You know, I’ve heard a person this guy I knew told me one time that, he was doing a project on a startup company, so he became an Uber driver so that he could interview passengers on a regular basis, get feedback, surveys, you know, and for the startup company that he was doing, and he just did it for that reason. He did it for six months. And I was like, wow, okay, that's that's very interesting. You know, another thing is sort of portfolios and website if applies to the industry your targeting and, you know, you can yeah, you see a lot of students with their own website, for example. And because they're doing some sort of, company, it can be community work. It could be something that they did. And yes, I'm surprised at how many students I see who, let's say, through scholarship applications and stuff, they've started this website and this little company to start up. And then that keeps the conversation rolling. When are you going into the interview so that you can they say, you know, hey, can you tell me a bit about that. Like what was that about? And then if you could include, you know, and these are things that come on on, these are things, you see that students resumes. So I want to be clear about that. Right. Do you see this. So some of them have direct links to articles that they wrote, you know, or mentioned in, for example, as part of, you know, an experience that they've had on a resume like club, for example, they were in a club or sort of conversations starters. Right? Because they may just put it there on a resume in a very short form. And then you say, well, tell me a bit about this and they expand. Right. So they're very interesting. And a lot of things are like independent learning. Right. Didn't you know, they engage in particularly to that industry, the Bloomberg market concepts, you know, simulations they partook in, not even necessarily even if they didn't get an official certificate. But, you know, you see more and more students and we are actually involved with it at Ivey, that extra competency learning like Coursera, for example, you know, so you see a lot of those things on the resume or leadership certificates, you know, SAP or sap as we call it, you know, technical consultant, you know, different things. You'd be surprised that those are the things on resumes to me that, they may take a little extra effort, but they stand out. Yeah, I think you get some great stuff there. It's, it's encouraging to hear you're saying some some of the similar stuff to what I counsel students about as well. Right. That that whole links to articles they wrote, you know, it's such a credibility builder. It's it's such a proof of work that I genuinely care about this, this job, this industry. And if you go back to something you mentioned earlier about a situation where you're essentially asked the question, why do you want to work in this company, why this industry? And you need a better answer than, I'm looking for someone to exchange my time for money, right? Let's look, I mean, I've heard answers that essentially boil down to that. And those are generally not good enough because as a company, you're sitting there going, well, if you're if you're not even interested in what we do, then there's a reasonable chance you'll leave if things get a little difficult or whatever. And then I'm going to be right back in this situation. And so I think that's a that's a really interesting point. I love that Instagram pizza place with, review because it combines something that, you know, so often it feels like all I have to do is, you know, I spent all this time in school and I'm on the job search, and then I have to do more job search related stuff. Here's something you can do that if distinctive, it makes you stand out, and it can be something that's kind of fun for you. So that that if I did that overlap there now that's probably a marketing role, maybe not a, you know, somebody who wants to do, I-Banking. But it's it's relevant and interesting in that overlap. I love Venn diagrams, but for whatever reason I've been talking about them recently. That overlap of I'm interested in this, it's kind of fun. I'm going to learn about some about something useful and it'll be good for my job search. And frankly, it's probably you can probably apply some of that to your your classes as well and help you get you get better grades. I love it. Thanks, Garth. That's, great insights there. So let's shift gears for the last few minutes of this conversation. You know, one of the things we think of a lot on this podcast and in the content is that we create is how do we help students, really, once they get that job, how do they accelerate into that job? We've seen, I mean, I'm sure you've seen people through your career who have a lot of a lot of potential. And for whatever reason, they just stall out early because, bad decisions or something. They just didn't understand. And if they'd known about it, they might have approached it differently. So that's some of the stuff that I think is really important to think about. Because conversely, you've probably seen people who, you know, their career just takes off like a rocket. And when people look at them, they're like, that person has star written all over them. And, you know, I want to be able to try to help more people be able to have their careers launched like that. With that preamble, Garth is 22 years old again, his career right now. What advice would you give to Garth just to be able to say, if you do these things, you massively increase the odds that you have a very rapid trajectory and positive trajectory. Wow, loaded. You know, one of the things I remember hearing Prince saying that the artist Prince saying, you know, don't be like me, it's stuck with me. actually, here you don't have to do what I did. I remember him saying that you don't have to do what I did, you know, and I thinking, hey but you were pretty successful, maybe I want to know what you did. You know, I one of the things I think to me, Ashley, is, you know, you gotta be patient, but you got to be also like a sponge, right? So if I was 22 again, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't very patient, I was. I always tell people, you know, I wanted to be the CEO of a bank in a year, you know? So what did I do? What do you do to do that? Right. Sometimes you just have to sit back, become a sponge, take your time. Things happen because through that process. What's happening is you're developing obviously more education on where you really want to go, more experienced as well as you. You're developing more connections that are very valuable, take you to that level. But it takes patience, right? It takes vision. I don't the dissuade students from dreaming big. So I don't want to get, you know, it. Really confused. I want you to dream big, dream huge. Bigger than you've ever dreamed before, you know? But sometimes extreme ambition can really trump patience. And that patience may have a whole lot of ROI return on investment in it that you didn't know about because it was that patience element of it. Right. And you just were like, oh, I'm not patient. Right. And it can lead you. And sometimes when you you don't have the patience that leads you down an incorrect path and that path could sort of stick with you and you sometimes can't get off the path, you know. So, I think it's, it's important to really, really research different things. Take the time, speak to the right people, you know, speak to the right associations. You know, it really is that level of just like your four year degree and, you your one year and be at Ivey or two years somewhere else, or even your PhD. That time really goes by really quick. So don't think that when you get onto into the workplace that, I mean, I don't want to be in this job for three years or four years, you know, I mean, because that's going to go by quick, and maybe ten years in that in that industry might like really, really help you even more as you move forward in your life. I mean, if you listen to the story of a number of not going to call any names but a number of CEOs here and listen to their career journeys, typically in the financial services industry and stuff like that, you'd be surprised at how many of them. A lot of them were sort of this patient and climbing the ladder and stuff like that. So I don't dissuade people from being a little bit more patient. So kind of a balance between patient and impatient. Yep. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's a good point of balance. So I've always been fascinated by U.S. Navy Seals and the incredible challenge, physical challenges and mental challenge they overcome to do what they do. And then they have this saying slow is smooth. Smooth as fast. Wow. And, I think that sort of I hear some resonance of that with what you're describing as well. Yes. Perfect. That's exactly. I never heard that one. But thanks for bringing that up. Yeah. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Well, wow. So that's, Yeah, that's something that's always stood out to me. Anything else? You would. So you would tell 22 year old Garth? Yeah. Reach out. Reach out. Not just to industry people. Reach out to your neighbor. You know, don't be afraid to discuss your goals and attributes. And and wants in life to your next door neighbors and and those that are close to you, some of your family members. Because you'd be surprised how they can actually help you with your career. When you think that the truck driver next to you, living next to you for many years, can't help you because you want to go into investment banking, how do you know who that person knows? How do you know the conversations, that they have had? You'll be surprised at some of the things. You can get out of that right. So that can help you get through that, get to that goal of going into investment banking. I think that's almost like when you just have tunnel vision, right? And you're not looking outside the box, you know, you're not veering off the path. But but you need to be diverse in your mindset, in your thought process. It highlights something else that I think is really interesting, and that is the, I've run into people all over my career who are of the view, and it's not like it's not an irrational, unreasonable view. But if I just put my head down and do my job really well and don't talk to anybody else, things about, you know, not to say maybe, maybe that could work. Maybe it works out. Well, maybe. But what's what? What are the percentage odds in that? Like, you know, like it's like getting into professional sports, right? You know, that is so I agree with you 100% on that. Like and that's the mindset of a lot of people. And then it goes really sideways on you. If your company is going through restructuring, it's that you've done a great job, but your department is let go and suddenly you don't know anybody else in industry, you don't have a network and you know, suddenly you're like, oh, now I got to go build a network from scratch while I'm looking for a job. And so that makes it a little trickier. And so I think that I, I totally agree with I mean, that's kind of the advice. One of the piece of advice I would give a 22 year old Ashley. Yeah. More reaching out to more, you know, building you building of networks in a, in a, in a reciprocal way. I love, if you ever read Adam Grant's book, Give and Take? I have it right here. I love that book. He's a he's a prof at the University of Pennsylvania at The Wharton School. He wrote this great book called Give and Take. The basic premise is a lot of meat in it, but one of the things that really stuck out to me was this idea people who are givers, who basically help other people without the expectation or assumption that something directly back, the universe just seems to work out. But the caveat he put in is givers end up at the top and the bottom because the givers could get taken advantage of. They don't and don't have time to do their own work because they're helping everyone else. Those people struggle. But the ones who who are very generous and want to help people, he describes as five minute favors where, you know, you, you know, do something simple that could connect someone or help two people, connect together. Who? Who? They don't know each other. But you can help them. I just think that that's such a powerful way to operate in the world. And I would 100% give that advice to myself at 20, 100%. There's a guy in the in the music industry, I guess, maybe movie industry, that he's the guy who Clarance Avant I think it's Clarence Avant. And he has helped some of the biggest that people in this world, in the industry, excel. And why did he do it? He used to say, you know, I didn't get rich off of it. I mean, he was, you know, it was worth some money, don't get me wrong. But it wasn't because he was doing it for that. That's a monetary return. He just it was just embedded into him and, and and he died. Not too long ago. And, you know, it's amazing that the people who were surrounded, who surrounded him and he helped and the good things they said about him. And I saw a documentary on him, on, Netflix it’s either Netflix or Prime. And it was just amazing. I hadn't heard of him before, but then I realized, wow, what an incredible human being. Was there anything we've we've talked about softer skills. We talked about, patient, balance of patience and impatience. We've talked about reaching out and networking earlier on in your career skill wise. So let's go talk about something harder. Harder skills. Is there anything that you tell yourself now? You kind of came through the banking industry and there's sort of nuances to different elements within the financial services industry. But just curious if this, if there's anything that jumps out, especially when you talk to companies and you get feedback on students who are now, oh, the bottom line is, if you understand sort of the direction that you plan on taking or you want to get in there, work backwards, you must always work backwards and find out, okay, what? And then of course, this comes with talking to people, your connections, etc. reading and researching in but you have to not think. I had this conversation with a guy who graduated from University of Toronto recently in political science, and he was saying, you know, well, I was thinking about the financial services industry because obviously he hasn't found a job within a year. He hasn't really pushed himself or anything. But I was thinking of getting in the financial services industry, but I was thinking to do some of those courses it’s going to take a long time. I said, well you’ve been not working for a year! You know, and now the next year you can be saying the same thing. So what should you have done? Well, there's many different organizations that offer certifications, courses, etcetera that can help you prepare. And these industries take a lot of people who don't just have, for example, financial services, finance skills, if you want to call it that. But if you come to the table and you get some sponsors and you make connections, and then you say to them, well, you know, I've done my Canadian Securities course, and my CIM from CSI and or my Wall Street prep for breaking into Wall Street, you know, financial modeling courses. They didn't even hear that you did a Political science degree, you know what I mean? So it's like those are the types of skills from, a technical point of view. So, and I just chose the financial services industry. Maybe being biased, but the bottom line is, the same applies to many different industries. And we all know that. Now. And even before the skills go hand in hand, behavioral and technical. So it's not scaling up on the behavioral side, if you feel that if you've talked to people that said, you know, you need to improve in this area well don’t waste time. Start learning how to improve in that area, get those skills to get them to that area. And then when you put the whole package together, now you're a more powerful human being, and easier to assimilate into whatever industry you're going to go into. Well, it's a funny thing to I think you, you, you and you alluded to just there about, you know, ask people about what are the skills you ought to be developing. If you give someone that advice, they go. do it and come back to you. Hasn't their credibility been enhanced substantially? Don't you feel like I'm this so this person, you know, they've got hustle. I'm more willing. Help me out a little more. That's exactly it. So. So what have you developed there? You've just developed a sponsor. You see what I'm going with this? And you just laid it out correctly there. They have more respect for you. You come back and say, hey, I did it. Okay, wow! You did? I didn't think you would. But anyway, let's move forward. Well, and the and the reason you say you chuckled when you said that. But it's true because I've given up some of this type of advice and you got some really interesting new angles here that I'm going to incorporate. But I'd give this advice to a bunch of people, and it's not as many people as you would think who take advantage. I know, it's not as many people exactly like and the guy was given the, the, the advice to the political science who had just met. It was at a blockchain futuristic conference for two days this week, and he was there and he got a free ticket through, you know, and, person and he said, well, you know, this is not really my thing, but I'll come. And he came out there and he met so many people there who talked to them about their industries, etc., etc., and he left. There was such a wealth of knowledge and a new perspective on life, on his career, on what he may be looking for. And so if he didn't do that, he would have sat at home and not, first of all, got all these connections. Secondly, you know have the knowledge. So you know why don’t I get out there you know and well you you're trying to in certainly in those type of situations you, you really just trying to grow your surface area for luck, right? Yes. Lightning strikes somewhere you want to give as big a place for that lightning of fortune to strike for you. And going out and doing this event, going to these events is a is a great way to do it. And some is just experimenting because there's some that are not going to work out. And he was like, well, okay, well that didn't turn into anything. You know, you got to keep trying. That's what makes it. Exactly. Garth, let's wrap up with our traditional question, two or three questions. What's one thing our listeners can do and implement tomorrow to make themselves more in demand from a career perspective? First of all, could that connect, connect, connect, connect. Yeah, and I'm not talking volume. I'm not talking quantity. I'm talking quality. Right. Yeah. Be strategic about it. And how are you going to be strategic is you're going to learn from the smart ones. So you know they say we're smart not hard. Well I don't know if that ever applies. But you know you get to work smarter and hard. But bottom line is trying to work smart to find not just who to connect to, but how to connect to those people, where you should be connecting, etc.. So do it smartly but have a roadmap and have a strategic plan to do it. You know, be yourself. Don't try to be a robot. Don't try to be someone you're not. Be yourself and bring that to the table with integrity, honesty, etc. and build that resilience in you also as you as you're doing that. So and you know, finally take advantage of what's out there, the information, that's all there. Do not complain that you can't find the information or you can't get here. Can't do that. It's out there. You can get it. You can talk to people, which by talking to people helps you. As we've gone through this, the develop sponsors and people who just stick to you, etc. so take advantage of that and really, really, really don't say you're going to put it off until next week or next month or whatever, but just act, you know, when you've done your strategy and you put your plan together, start at it and don’t take five years to put your plan together. You know, I think that's some great stuff there. You know, are there any books or podcasts that you'd recommend to our audience? You know, when you counsel students and you talk to companies in terms of helping students bridge that gap and learn, is there anything that jumps out, any books or podcasts? Yeah, definitely. Well, I go back to Adam Grant, so Work Life with Adam Grant, which is an Apple Podcast. I'm not sure if you listened to that one, but, Work Life with Adam Grant. And there's also The First 90 days, obviously, that that's a book for once you get your job, The First 90 Days. Awesome. That sounds, that sounds great. And then the last question I have for you before we wrap up, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I know you have a very busy life, and it's really generous of you to share time with us. So what I like to do is ask what, you know, me or our audience this is going to be out there for a while probably. What is is there anything that if you could wave a magic wand is there any problem or anything you're working on, anything you'd like just, to fix or whatever, anything personally, professionally that if you could wave a magic wand and fix it, you would do. And I'd love for us or our audience, you know, do anything we can to help you. Yeah. I think, you know, bottom line is to point your thumb at yourself and figure out what has been holding you back, right and attack that, head on, for me, you know, the problem is always how better can I become? And sometimes even myself. I don't address that issue or that problem by talking to the right people and being what is the word? Vulnerable, if you know what I mean. How better can I become in and people can use it in their personal life? And if my work life right, and I think you always have to be stage that you feel you haven't fully accomplished, everything you always have to be hungry. You always have to be out there saying, okay, I need to move on to the next. I need to get help getting for the next and always that way. And the problem that I find with, with a lot of students sometimes is when they get into the organization. For example, I always say they relax, they relax, that they feel that now, the training should just be pulling down the long. But no, you have to have that same resilience and that same mindset of trying to improve, talking to the right people, getting the right sponsors, doing the right you know, competency learning, continuous learning, and don't and always stay hungry, always stay hungry. So waving a magic wand, I wish there was a magic wand that can always keep someone hungry and moving forward. Okay, Garth, thanks so much for your time. That was a super interesting conversation. I guess people can find you on LinkedIn and yeah, and those sorts of places. It's been, it's been a great chat with you and, a lot of takeaways for people. And I really appreciate the time. I hope you have a great day and look forward to staying in touch. Yeah, same here Ashley. And, it's always a pleasure talking with you. And, I think this was a very fruitful podcast and I hope it provides great benefit to, to listeners. You know, we everybody need some help somewhere.